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04-17-2026: I do not know what happened to the formatting of this, and other, posts. I will be remedying this as soon as I can properly get to it. I don’t want to get too distracted. This was posted on July 25, 2025 on an incarnation of one of my several blog manifestations this last almost year-and-a-half.…
04-17-2026: I do not know what happened to the formatting of this, and other, posts. I will be remedying this as soon as I can properly get to it. I don’t want to get too distracted.
This was posted on July 25, 2025 on an incarnation of one of my several blog manifestations this last almost year-and-a-half. Originally, it was a segment of another blog post, one that was extra extra long. In the interest of clarity and focus, I have reproduced it here. The archive blog post with additional context (what led up to this) can be found here:/liana-kerzner-redlianak-jessica-bryce-routhier-poppy-diabolique-transgirltherapist-and-mental-health-stigma/
Table of Contents
Here we pick up where the last post left off. Jessica Bryce Routhier (Poppy/Penny/name-this-financial-quarter Diabolique of the Diabolique System) had just blocked me (Asher Wolfstein) and then ‘put me on blast’ to her sizeable audience (way more followers than I).
This introduction wasn’t originally published. This was written for this new post today.
In this post, exactly as I did before, I refrain from interspersing the exchange with lots of rambling commentary, as I am wont to do, because, honestly, it’s distracting and I don’t want to bias you anymore than you might already be.
I don’t like that setup, as opposed to Liana Kerzner, who suggests that her critics, presumably including me, put things out of order, don’t show context, bias you with commentary, and so on, all of which she does in a drawn out interpersonal fashion with her spoken words in her videos and podcasts. I much rather prefer you have a chance to see the whole thing before you hear my argument. Helps quell those accusations, and, I’d rather know your true reaction, not necessarily what you think I want you to say.
And, so, here it is.
The reason I eventually posted this transcript was not to make anybody look bad. Since I always tell the truth, I can’t make anyone look bad. Only the truth makes anyone look bad. Their own actions make them look bad. I didn’t doctor a single word, image, or order of these shots, and if you think I did, let me know, with proof.
The reason I published this, to my own detriment as well, as I was very uncomfortable doing it for both of us, is that I had spoken at length about what was said in this exchange on my BlueSky, and elsewhere, up to this point (I was suspended, I believe, 2 months before this post).
Despite claiming otherwise, Liana had too, and not always as obliquely as she likes to feign. What Liana continued to assert wasn’t lining up with what I was quoting, and, to me, it became clear that more people were listening to Liana, for various reasons, than listening to me, despite both of us having the same amount of evidence for the public: our words.
And so, I published it, since she wasn’t going to tell the truth about it. And yes, she lied about it. Right out of the gate. She balks in indignation at this, as if not saying someone’s name erases a lie, or that she “misremembered,” yet she’s able to allegedly remember specific random details about things at the drop of a hat. It’s in her video that was only a couple days, if that, later. Her memory is always really poor when it comes to me, and it’s never her fault; somehow all of her shortcomings are my fault, which is fucked.
When I originally posted this transcript, I made a few mistakes. Not in substance, it’s all here, to my embarrassment as well. I assumed more people would understand how absolutely bizarre and unhealthy this entire exchange was, in style, in expectations, in the way it played out, especially when its paired up with Kerzner’s statements and descriptions of the events leading up to its disclosure.
I was wrong.
Far too many people, in my personal opinion, don’t seem to see that, or, at least, they don’t express this beyond what they privately tell my husband (people don’t really talk to me, and vice versa, which is unfortunate). Far far too many, particularly in Liana and Jessica’s circles, seem to think that, yeah, this is unfortunate and not perfect, but it’s very understandable and fairly normal and that its to be expected in a fight and I’m childish to not just move o…
I don’t want to be dismissive, and I believe that many who might think this are either under the influence of a number of factors, as well as don’t understand the full depth, or, possibly, just don’t care about me, or, if not me, the other victims of Liana Kerzner’s abuse. However, I would be lying if I said that my first reaction, particularly to individuals who constantly profess a deep concern for safety, feelings, protection, consent, care, kindness, and decide this is acceptable, that I need to accept it, and that’s that, is one of, “You are unserious people who do. not. really. care. You just tell yourself you do.”
Meanwhile, in my Telegram chat with Liana Kerzner:
Asher Wolfstein: https://x.com/ZenaAndPoppy/status/1833203761491415129 12:18 PM ✓✓ Asher Wolfstein: Really? — 12:18 PM ✓✓ Asher Wolfstein: Oh I'm pissed. — 2:11 PM ✓✓ Asher Wolfstein: (screenshot of above tweet) Zena & Poppy - On Hiatus Due To Several Factors @ZenaAndPoppy I never once claimed I was a victim. I claimed that excessively posting makes it impossible to respond to every point. This is called a gish gallop. … You are splitting. Stop.
Included Meme Image says: HERE BITCH TAKE THIS [picture of a projection screen] SINCE YOU WANNA PROJECT
The quoted Tweet reads:
Asher Wolfstein（アッシャ・ウルフシュタイン） @asherwolfstein
Replying to @asherwolfstein @ZenaAndPoppy and @JessPected
all, and l've challenged the questionable parts. Now you're suddenly a victim. Nice try. This was uncomfortable for me the second you said, 'how does this relate to what said?' and I should’ve known then. Mv BPD was rignt, which is sad. You are very manipulative and it shows /
[ED: not in the image is the rest of the sentence: the second I held you responsible for something you’ve said that’s concerning, considering you’re a therapist (but also give you the opportunity to explain, as opposed to many of your trolls). I’m not going to apologize for holding you accountable for the shit you say.] — 2:25 PM • Sep 9, 2024 • 2 Views — 2:30 PM ✓✓
Missing From These Screenshots
After I read Jessica’s final Tweet (the one where she soft-diagnoses my alleged symptoms that reads “You’re splitting. Stop.”) I messaged Liana the following. The first three messages are clear and definitely word for word. The last one is a paraphrased remembrance, but the substance isn’t missing anything:
Asher Wolfstein: Fuck this.
Asher Wolfstein: Fuck her.
Asher Wolfstein: The trolls were right.
Asher Wolfstein: I have to go lay down, I'll talk to you later.
Later, after I had spent an hour or two calming down, I returned to the long-running Telegram chat and deleted those responses. Those responses explain later messages sent by Liana.
Return To The Screenshots
Asher Wolfstein: Well, I guess that happened. Ah well. I had to go have a bit of a think over it, and l've decided that, it's better it went this way. But, watch, it's going to ding on the KF radar now [redacted]. — 4:30 PM PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: She blocked me, and l've blocked her, and that's that. — 4:30 PM ✓✓
[shrugging sticker] — 4:30 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: The part that pissed me off so much that I had literally had to go to another room (never happened before) is the fact that she's a therapist and decided to announce that I'm splitting and to tell me to stop. — 4:32 PM ✓✓
[upset looking down sticker] — 4:32 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I don't believe she is correct on any of her observations about me. Did I persist even after she 'disengaged' (even though she didn't)? Yes, and I addressed that. Doesn't 'clear' me. I wasn't meaning for it to. Am I abrasive? Yes. She didn't really disengage, and she paints a very narrow shifty picture. I'm deeply offended. — 4:34 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: The most offensive thing is that she's a therapist and in my opinion clearly trying to use my mental health diagnosis to deligitimize me. It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I understand if I did the same to her (leave a very bad taste, not deligitimize). — edited 4:36 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: It's already hit. — 4:57 ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Asher, these trolls claim I'm a bad person. So you saying they're right because you had one fight where you both came in hot isn't something I'm going to respond well to. If those trolls are right, they're right about me too. You're entitled to your opinion but I have feelings and that comment hurt — 9:28 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay — 9:29 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I think taking a few days and not making the worst possible assumptions is a good idea here — 9:29 PM
Liana Kerzner: Because those trolls quoted Schooley about me. So you saying they're right hit really hard. — 9:30 PM
Liana Kerzner: This will be hard to hear, but when you said that? That sure looked like a split to me. It's not delegitimizing when you actually ARE going too far. "Manipulative" is something thrown at BPD people unfairly and you of all people know that. So you're in pot calling the kettle black territory here. That doesn't mean vou're wrong. But is this REALLY worth it right now? — 9:32 PM
Liana Kerzner: Someone doesn't deserve to get deadnamed because they're an asshole. The trolls were not right about that — 9:32 PM
I immediately blocked her. I did not see anything after this, whatever it may have been. I blocked Liana, after five years, due to this sentence: “It’s not delegitimizing when you actually ARE going too far.”
This isn’t the first time I’ve been presented such a sentiment, but it was the first time in a long time that I encountered it. This is the moment I actually “split” on anyone, and it wasn’t Jessica, it was Liana.
And so I completely removed myself from the situation (and from almost all situations online), DFEing (as Kiwi Farms users put it: deleted fucking everything) most of my online presence.
27 September 2024
Asher Wolfstein: I was wrong.
I'm sorry.
The trolls are not right, because they are trolls. The stuff they've claimed about you, such as repeating Schooley's statements, isn't accurate. Things they've claimed about Poppy aren't accurate. What they've said about me isn't accurate. They are not right about you, Poppy, or me in general. You are correct. I agree that saying that was hurtful.
My behavior after the ultimate quote-post, particularly towards you immediately, wasn't healthy, mindful, or mature. It was embarrassing pathological knee-jerking due to my being unprepared and not as developed as I should be to handle a disorder I am responsible for handling. I've avoided engaging in anything to that degree for twenty years, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened now or that you were dragged into it because of me.
I recognize that I failed to honor my positive relationships with you, Pablo, and myself in that series of events. I would be very hurt if someone repaid my patience, care, and understanding by blocking me. didn't deserve that. I've realized that what happened and a lot of other things are NOT really worth it overall. I'm still struggling in a difficult emotional space because of everything that happened and what I did.
From the second reply on, I proceeded to make poor decisions. And I let myself get fucked, stopping too late as things began to spiral out of control. I fucked up, and I am severely discomfited. I know that the first step towards taking responsibility is to tell you all of this, emphasizing that I'm sorry. — 11:29 AM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Strangely Asher, Poppy was willing to apologize to you the day after. It took you two and a half weeks to do this and now you want the kindness and compassion you failed to show someone else.
The delay could have been seen as "manipulative". I choose not to see it that way. But the real big problem with what you said to Poppy was it could apply JUST as much to you, in that you take everything out on Pablo that happens to you, so everyone else is afraid to upset you because of what it will do to him.
Lashing out at Poppy like that showed a massive lack of self awareness.
Furthermore, you don't believe in intrinsic self worth. You believe that worth is only given by others.
So shutting me out for over two weeks over your OWN mistake indicates to me, according to your own stated values, that I am not worth very much in your estimation. Your own inner torture was what mattered more, which is strange coming from someone who claims to not believe in ANY inner, intrinsic value.
So that leaves me wondering where exactly this leaves us. Because I cannot accept weeks of silence and BLOCKING from someone that controls hosting of my website, never mind someone I can trust as a friend. Your ethics and worldview seem a bit convenient based on this — edited 11:52 AM
28 September 2024
Asher Wolfstein: I agree that blocking you was inappropriate and a piss poor way of handling what was happening. It didn't handle anything, it made everything worse, it and the following days were pure pathological response. I wish none of this had ever happened, especially because it has led you to the conclusion that I do not value you. It's my error that it did not even occur to me that the span of time would suggest that. To me, despite what my actions have communicated, that is not true. My actions didn't match that. That's why I'm regretful. You are my closest friend. Our friendship is very dear to me. I let my problems fuck everything up. I let my ugly problems make other peoples lives difficult. I am so sorry.
A lot of thought has gone into this situation. I'm no longer interested in placing myself into direct and undesired situations and arguments with random people who may or may not know me just because they're allegedly fun, interesting, important to me, or irritate me. I'm no longer interested in pursuing arguments, as they are essentially violence veiled in words. I don't have any desire in being publicly dramatic via abrasive confrontation. It's not worth the results. This changes most all of my interactions in a fundamental way. I have reoriented. I don't want to repeat this. I want to discuss with people now, not argue at them.
To give my input on where that leaves us: my intent is to try to improve this situation as best I can. I want to make amends with you and Pablo. I would like the non-obligatory opportunity to regain trust. I have not done something this drastic for twenty years. I want to hopefully get our relationships to a better place. That's just me, I can't put that on you or anyone else. — 3:34 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: As I told Pablo, I am waiting for the situation with Nana to pass before responding. Pushing emotions too far does no good — 7:12 PM
[ED: The ‘Nana’ mentioned was not a relative of mine or Liana’s, but an uninvolved mutual acquaintance.]
29 September 2024
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, I understand, I will be here. — 11:50 AM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: It's A LOT, Asher. There are a LOT of misunderstandings. Many things you have said there aren't accurate. And if we are to solve this, we need to go through them all. Because I don't want to be the next person your BPD convinces you is out to get you. And it's a disease. It will do that — 11:51 AM
Liana Kerzner: I have a disease that tells me everyone will eventually turn on me and side with the stalker. Guess where I'm at right now? RIGHT THERE. But do I just act on it? No. I see it for what it is and I take responsibility, recognizing that is a disease. And that is what I expect from everyone else in my life. Because people who don't accept that an illness is an illness and that means something are counter to my recovery — 11:58 AM
Asher Wolfstein: I have no desire, motivation, reason, or intention of abandoning you and siding with the stalker. — 12:06 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: And when your BPD tells you otherwise, then what? — 12:07 PM
Liana Kerzner: It's a weapon that's right there whenever you feel like hurting someone — 12:07 PM
Liana Kerzner: Pablo accused me of betraying his confidence yesterday, so the idea that I stay the person I am in either of your eyes when shit gets real is out the window. So I have to protect myself. — 12:09 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I don’t know anything about that accusation or why it was made, but I understand what you’re saying. — 12:14 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: "MY BPD was right" should have made you realize "Don't hit send" — 12:14 PM
Liana Kerzner: But it didn't. And that's where we are — 12:14 PM
Liana Kerzner: He said it because he is under an amount of stress that is literally killing him. This shit has to stop — 12:15 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I think you are right, there are a lot of misunderstandings. — 12:17 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: That is what happens when you disappear for almost two weeks and let things fester. I know you had your reasons but there are consequences to choices — 12:17 PM
Liana Kerzner: Almost THREE weeks, make that — 12:18 PM
Asher Wolfstein: It seems to me that I have also not remained the person I thought I was from our conversations in your eyes either. — 12:26 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Can you say that in a way that's more direct, please? — 12:27 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay. For starters, I know that I do not believe in intrinsic value. The emphasis is on the intrinsic as a way to deny an objective measure of worth via intrinsicism. I do not think that any measure of worth is only given by others (that results in the same thing as intrinsic value). I don’t believe in any measure of objective worth at all. Only agents can value for themselves, including themselves. I don’t think focusing on trying to be my best within a lacking psyche so that I may then be what I want for those I value contradicts that nor suggests I don’t care about them according to my own value system. This is not a comment on the blocking, which was wrong. The question of whether someone deserves something is also separate in my mind, since there’s no objective worth to automatically imply it. I do not deserve the value I have for myself in comparison to what I believe you deserve, which is more than I seem able to offer (one of my reasons for the former judgment). I thought that’s who I was, but it seems to not be. — 12:41 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You consider that MORE direct? — 12:41 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I thought that’s who I was in your eyes, but it seems not to be. — 12:43 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Do you realize how many huge assumptions are inherent in that? — 12:43 PM
Liana Kerzner: I thought - your perspective that's who I was in YOUR eyes - my assumed perspective but is seem not to be - another assessment you didn't check out before coming to a conclusion — 12:44
Asher Wolfstein: To me it seems you’ve come to a number of conclusions about me the same way. — 12:45 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Why don't you ask instead of assuming? Because you don't actually KNOW. Hence SEEMS — 12:45 PM
Liana Kerzner: I'll take that as a "yes" in response to my question, by the way. But actually answering questions would help with clarity — 12:46 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Who am I in your eyes? — 12:48 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: That's a huge question and some acknowledgement of what I just said would help contextualize it correctly — 12:48 PM
Liana Kerzner: WHO you are and WHAT your lack of impulse control means are two very different things — 12:49 PM
Liana Kerzner: This is reading like "did a bad thing" = "am a bad person" and I am completely uncomfortable going there. Your question is a trick: a proper answer requires enough information to fill an entire library — 1:00 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I am a very guarded person (not necessarily private, but guarded), so communicating certain things is difficult for me. This can be to my detriment when others expect it to disappear for whatever reason. It won’t. I’m my father’s son. I don’t intend anything I’m saying to be a trick. I don’t want to contribute to any construction where I am a bad person because it’s not conducive to the relationships I would like to work towards. I am trying my best here. I understand I have not answered two significant questions so far. My big block of text was directly responding to what you said in your first reply after what happened as an example of an understanding I thought we shared, but what was said about that understanding showed otherwise. I want to answer all the questions. I want to address all the things.
When I say “seems,” I’m simply stating that’s how it seems to me and that I’m not committed to it at all. In fact, I’d like to know rather than guess, cause it’s just a guess.
I can only speak from my perspective. However I see my behavior is not necessarily how it is for anyone else. When my base pathological response kicked in, I was angry, hurt, and panicking, as has always been the case. There were so many terrible things flying through my mind that were horribly disastrous, and I didn’t do them because I didn’t want to hurt anyone. I ended up hurting people I care about anyway, and I recognize that. The point here is that in the throes of it, the only person I really want to hurt is myself. Siding with a stalker to hurt someone I care about out of spite is something that might flit through my brain, but I know it would pain me so much to do it that I don’t. Even then. I didn’t block you to hurt you. It did. I didn’t mean it to, so I’m sorry I did it. The idea that this might happen again and that I’d let all of it lead me to actively maliciously hurt someone is appalling to me, especially after twenty years of not doing that. I’d rather shut down and go to the hospital. That’s who I am.
I am bombarded weekly with Borderline shit, and my constant go-to for the past twenty years, per our interview, is to shut down and do nothing and/or beat the shit out of myself. Anything else makes everything so much worse.
I realize there are inherent assumptions in everyone’s perspectives, including mine. “Seems” is a way for me to clarify what I think is a non-committed assumption or a guess. It’s possible it’s not the best way. I always hope my guesses can be corrected, given the right opportunity. I don’t want to hold onto something untrue or assert it as an objective fact. I am open to any corrections regarding what I have to say. I know others may not be, but that’s how I’m used to resolving things. I feel that ultimately, this corrective process, harsh or otherwise, brings me to better resolutions. — 3:56 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I said I was not comfortable going there, Asher — 4:03 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I'm at a loss. I was trying to say that I don't want to go there either as a reassurance. — 4:05 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Them just say that instead of a 5000 word essay full of "I'm not changing. I am who I am" when you know I need things to change — 4:05 PM
Liana Kerzner: You are talking a lot. But listening not well — 4:06 PM
Liana Kerzner: You asked me a question. Then you answered it for me. That's kind of bullshit — 4:07 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay. I was trying to say the opposite of how you have interpreted it. I was stating what I think I am, not what anybody else thinks I am. And I am willing to change and be corrected so that what I think is accurate and what I do is beneficial. I am struggling to communicate with you and I really want to. I have clearly missed something if I'm not listening well. So, I have to now ask, what is it you would like to see happen? — 4:15 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: Or, even, what is it I'm missing or not hearing? I want to hear it. — 4:18 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You asked me what I thought. Then you told me what you thought. We're not having the same discussion. You're talking to yourself. — 4:30 PM
Liana Kerzner: (in reply to: Who am I in your eyes?) This was the question That wasn't the question you answered — 4:30 PM
Liana Kerzner: Yeah, that's gonna lead to confusion — 4:31 PM
Liana Kerzner: YOU cannot answer who you are in MY eyes — 4:31 PM
Liana Kerzner: Feigning interest in the other person's perspective as an opening to an essay on why you are your father's son isn't going to go well. — 4:33 PM
Liana Kerzner: Also… I never, EVER said that you were a bad person. You made that up — 4:36 PM
Liana Kerzner: I KNEW this was what it was. That is EXACTLY where I did not want this to go. I said that. Clearly. And you busted that boundary — 4:38 PM
Liana Kerzner (in reply to: This is reading like “did a bad thing” = “am a bad person” and I…) RIGHT THERE — 4:38 PM
Liana Kerzner: You went EXACTLY where I said I did not want it to go — 4:38 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I understand what you're saying, and that what I've said has been interpreted that way, which is fine, I respect that. I know for myself that I would never consciously attempt to do so. I was trying to address “This is reading like ‘did a bad thing’ = ‘am a bad person’ and … your question is a trick …” in that I don’t want to contribute to that either. You and me both. I don’t think you think I’m a bad person. I don’t think I’m a bad person. I don’t want either of us to discuss how I’m a bad person because I’m uncomfortable with it too. I was agreeing with you. I agree. I totally agree.
Then I was trying to answer the question "what happens when your BPD…" and "Do you realize how many huge assumptions are…" I am hurt by these interpretations that I'm feigning anything. I am truly interested in your perspective. That's why I've asked what I'm missing.
I think I’m seeing what I’m missing. — edited 4:40 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I said I did not want to go into bad person territory. That is exactly where you went — 4:41 PM
Asher Wolfstein: *I would never consciously attempt to tell YOU how I am in YOUR eyes. — 4:41 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Then don't ask for my perspective when you really want to give me yours. It's deceptive — 4:42 PM
Asher Wolfstein: So you're not interested in my perspective then? — 4:42 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner:
[A cropped screenshot showing my message where it says, “…saying to be a trick. I don’t want to contribute to any construction where I am a bad person because it’s not conducive to the relationships…”]
Right where I said I did not want to go — 4:42 PM
Liana Kerzner: (in reply to: So you’re not interested in my perspective then?) Dear God — 4:42 PM
Liana Kerzner: I did not say that — 4:42 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Neither did I. — 4:42 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I agree with you on that. I'm sorry I commented on it. I agree with you. — 4:42 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Asher — 4:43 PM
Liana Kerzner: You busted a boundary. That matters — 4:43 PM
Liana Kerzner: You're not responding to what I'M saying. You're responding to what the thing I said made you think about. Which makes it impossible to follow you — 4:44 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I have boundaries too. — 4:45 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: And you want them respected, don't you? So respect mine — 4:45 PM
Liana Kerzner: That's a simple "Okay fair", dude. It doesn't require a novel — 4:46 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay fair. — 4:46 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I agree with you. — 4:49 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Well then start being more direct and take one thing at a time. No more philosophical sophistry — 4:50 PM
Liana Kerzner: SHORTER — 4:50 PM
Liana Kerzner: I'm not going to get into the bloody contradictions in your loop de loop worldview. It's beyond the scope of me trying to save my business — 4:50 PM
Liana Kerzner: I never argued bloody intrinsicism that was another ridiculous thing you brought in that complicated and confused things — 4:51 PM
Liana Kerzner: And yes, I'm angry. That is what happens when you stomp on people's boundaries, intentionally or not — 4:52 PM
Asher Wolfstein: "Furthermore, you don't believe in intrinsic self worth. You believe that worth is only given by others.
So shutting me out for over two weeks over your OWN mistake indicates to me, according to your own stated values, that I am not worth very much in your estimation. Your own inner torture was what mattered more, which is strange coming from someone who claims to not believe in ANY inner, intrinsic value." — 4:52 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, fair. — 4:52 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You’re very smart. You happy? Doesn’t make you right — 4:53 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I'm not happy. — 4:53 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Your father was smart. Look where he ended up. Because he didn't pay enough attention to anything but the messages coming from the darkest pits in his own mind — 4:53 PM
Liana Kerzner: You miss the OBVIOUS because you're looking for complexity that is not there — 4:54 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, fair. — 4:54 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: It's an insult to MY intelligence to be talked down to in that way. It's not my job to point out errors in formal logic structure because you shit the bed on twitter. Cut it out. That's epic bullshit, — 4:55 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Those are your words. I didn't say them. They ARE right there. I quoted them. — 4:55 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Yes let's look at them — 4:55 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I also responded directly to them. — 4:55 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I’m not introducing complexity that isn’t there. I’m responding to complexity that was said. — 4:55 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Furthermore, you don't believe in intrinsic self worth. You believe that worth is only given by others. - That is what I understood you told me. The conversation may have been incomplete, but you DID tell me that — 4:55 PM
Asher Wolfstein: And I have corrected that misunderstanding, because if that's what you understood when I said that then it's my fault, but it's also not accurate. — 4:56 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Correcting someone is not a great way to show you're sorry, my dude — 4:57 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I also said "I'm sorry," "I'm wrong," and "I'm so sorry," and "I wish this never happened," and "It did [hurt someone I care about]." — 4:57 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You REALLY don't see how fucking off for nearly three weeks and leaving Pablo to clean up the mess makes it seem like the only person you really care about is yourself? — 4:58 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I can see why it could seem that way, and I respect that. From my perspective, it is not accurate. I care a great deal about you, as I've also said, which is why I'm here. — 5:00 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I don't CARE if it's accurate at the moment. This is an empathy exercise. If you don't want people to think that, stop doing it, because that's the reality of disappearing for that long — 5:01 PM
Liana Kerzner: It was NOT such a big deal that it was worth that — 5:01 PM
Liana Kerzner: You blew it up WAY out of proportion — 5:01 PM
Asher Wolfstein: If I said that to you right now, how would you feel? — 5:02 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Oh you clearly have NO idea of the shit Pablo has said to me in this whole thing — 5:03 PM
Liana Kerzner: I took it — 5:03 PM
Liana Kerzner: We talked about it. — 5:03 PM
Liana Kerzner: Whatever I felt, I DEALT with it. I didn’t run away — 5:04 PM
Asher Wolfstein: No, I really have no idea. Pablo doesn't tell me about your conversations with him. — edited 5:04 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Yeah he transfers information pretty selectively and I've had words with him about that. I told him to stop trying to fix it 4 times — 5:04 PM
Liana Kerzner: But Asher… people get shit wrong. If you have a sense of self worth it's not the end of the world. Don't call it self worth if you want, but whatever the thing is that allows people to be wrong about you or even think ill of you without it causing complete internal collapse… THAT thing. That's what I'm talking about. I don't give a shit what you call it and I'm tired of fighting an argument of definition over it — 5:05 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Maybe I don't always have an identity, but I have a sense of self worth independent of anyone or their thoughts. I didn't internally collapse because someone else thought ill of me. I split after the quote-tweet, not before. I was in the process of splitting and collapsing over what I had mistakenly invited to happen. I could not handle any discussion or criticism regarding what happened while split, which I recognized. I shut off all avenues and any possibilities that might encourage me to interact while collapsed and splitting. Should I have said something? Oh fuck yes. I got it wrong. I really really really should have said something. I'm sorry I didn't. I'm really sorry. I've apologized for that mistake. I can speak more about what was going on with me, but I'm now very uncomfortable with doing so because it doesn't seem important to you. And it doesn't need to be important to you. But that's what happened, and that's how it is. I don't have any problem having self-worth. — 5:12 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: “It doesn’t seem important to you” NO WRONG — 5:13 PM
Liana Kerzner: The problem is that you are fucking busting boundaries and being too aggressive so there's no space to give a shit because I'm too busy defending myself against that sort of bullshit — 5:13 PM
Liana Kerzner: OTHER. PEOPLE. MATTER. Your will is not the only real thing — 5:13 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, fair. — 5:14 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: How am I being aggressive in this conversation? — 5:14 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Seriously bruh? — 5:14 PM
Liana Kerzner: "It doesn't seem important to you" is passive aggressive horseshit — 5:14 PM
Asher Wolfstein: My viewpoint is passive aggression? I have explained what I mean when I say "seems." You don't have to take it that way, but it doesn't negate my explanation. — 5:15 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: You don't want to know that? — 5:15 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Not okay, Asher — 5:15 PM
Liana Kerzner: STOP thta — 5:15 PM
Liana Kerzner: that — 5:15 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Stop what? — 5:16 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Stop baiting me to soothe you — 5:16 PM
Liana Kerzner: It’s fucking bullshit — 5:16 PM
Asher Wolfstein: That is a HUGE assumption on your part about me. — 5:16 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: NOPE — 5:16 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Like HUGE — 5:16 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: WRONG — 5:16 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Then explain why it isn’t, please. — 5:16 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I'm analyzing your behaviour not assuming your intents. The structure of your communications is peak bait — 5:16 PM
Liana Kerzner: "You don't want to know that?" Know what? I just said your last accusation that I don't care is bullshit. STOP — 5:17 PM
Liana Kerzner: THIS is what I mean about you being AGGRESSIVE — 5:17 PM
Asher Wolfstein: "Stop baiting me to soothe you" This is ALL about intent to me. I can't do something in order to accomplish something else without intent. — 5:17 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: TO YOU. There is also ME in this conversation — 5:17 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I'm really NOT trying to be aggressive. I have zero expectations on the reception of this statement. — 5:18 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: OTHER PEOPLE EXIST. We are not just the shadows in your brain — 5:18 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I also exist. — 5:18 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: (in reply to: I’m really NOT trying to be aggressive. I have zero expectations…) Zero expectations is BULLSHIT. "You don't want to know?" is an expectation. It's passive aggressively insisting I care. STRUCTURALLY — 5:18 PM
Liana Kerzner: If you really don't want to come across as passive aggressive, give a shit about why you're coming across that way — 5:19 PM
Liana Kerzner: You are NOT going to get an emotional reward from me here — 5:19 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I'm not trying to insist on anything. I feel that I have actively tried to minimize any insistance. — 5:19 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: When you start respecting boundaries, then the good feels can happen. But this middle school horseshit? Nah man. You're not getting what you want that way — 5:20 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I don't need or want an emotional reward. — 5:20 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: (in reply to: I don’t need or want an emotional reward.) The only clear thing I have gotten from you in WEEKS is some form of "TELL ME I'M NOT BAD" — 5:20 PM
Liana Kerzner: And every time I do you miss it, and go right back to another form of "tell me I'm not bad" — 5:20 PM
Liana Kerzner: And I'm DONE — 5:20 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I feel the same way, different phrase. — 5:21 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I am TIRED of the leading questions. Cut that out — 5:21 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, fair. — 5:21 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: At least you acknowledge they're leading questions. FINALLY — 5:21 PM
Liana Kerzner: That’s not good faith tactics, bruh — 5:12 PM
Asher Wolfstein: No, I don't. This is why I don't just say, "Okay, fair." — 5:21 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I'm done. I'm so done. - 5:22 PM
Asher Wolfstein: But what I have to say would be too many words, passive agresssive, leading, and full of insistences apparently. — 5:22 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: Me too. I think we'll have to come back to this. I must go. — 5:22 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I'm not Pablo. This bullshit doesn't work on me. You don't seem sorry. You seem aggrieved. And I have better things to do than eat your shit — 5:22 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I’m sorry. — 5:22 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Bullshit — 5:22 PM
Liana Kerzner: I don’t believe you — 5:23 PM
Liana Kerzner: This has all been craop — 5:23 PM
Liana Kerzner: (in reply to: But what I have to say would be too many words, passive agres…) THAT itself is passive aggressive — 5:23 PM
Asher Wolfstein: How else could I say that? — 5:23 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You don’t see the sarcasm? — 5:23 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I didn’t mean it sarcastically. — 5:24 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: That is not what I asked — 5:24 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I can see it why it would come across that way, but that would be assuming intent. — 5:24 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Again, STRUCTURE, not INTENT — 5:24 PM
Liana Kerzner: Stop doing that — 5:24 PM
Asher Wolfstein: But you're doing it to me! — 5:24 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Nope — 5:24 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I don’t get to claim that? — 5:24 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You don’t get to tell me what I intend. I don’t get to tell you what you intend — 5:24 PM
Liana Kerzner: I can only tell you how it landed — 5:25 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I feel that you have assumed so many things about my intent that it's almost impossible now to disentangle them in a conversation like this. — 5:25 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: Then stop telling me what I intend. — 5:25 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Your feeling is wrong. — 5:25 PM
Liana Kerzner: I am NOT telling you what you INTEND. For the THIRD TIME — 5:25 PM
Liana Kerzner: See that's not even a feeling. It's a judgment — 5:27 PM
Liana Kerzner: But I'm supposed to shift from "intrinsicism" to "I feel" gen Z horseshit and be able to follow the conversation. Nope. Not realistic — 5:27 PM
Asher Wolfstein: If you're not assuming intent, then how can you state why I do things. For example, just now, there was a possible assumption of passive-aggressive sarcasm, but instead of asking if I meant it sarcastically you just act like it was a given. — 5:28 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Is that a real question or a statement formed as a question? — 5:28 PM
Asher Wolfstein: It's question that should've had a question mark. — 5:29 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Because things can be STRUCTURALLY passive aggressive and if you want your communication to be more effective you'll stop and see that side — 5:29 PM
Liana Kerzner: (in reply to: But what I have to say would be too many words, passive agres…) This was not an authentic statement. You don't really believe this — 5:29 PM
Liana Kerzner: It's mocking — 5:29 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I really do believe this. — 5:30 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Really? — 5:30 PM
Asher Wolfstein: If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't have said it and insisted that it wasn't sarcatic. — 5:30 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Well then you'll listen and change your approach accordingly — 5:30 PM
Asher Wolfstein: "How else could I say that?" - A thing I also said. — 5:31 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Because you haven't been really hearing me. You've been adding and taking away from the things I say and responding to things I did not say — 5:31 PM
Liana Kerzner: Then demanding I answer questions based on those false assumptions. Then you go RIGHT TO the places I say I'm not comfortable going. — 5:31 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I'm not consciously demanding anything from you. — 5:32 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You have to decide whether you want to keep this friendship, or win this argument — 5:32 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I don't want to win. — 5:32 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I want to keep the friendship. — 5:32 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Then BACK the FUCK off — 5:32 PM
Liana Kerzner: You don't know SHIT about me. Clearlyu — 5:33 PM
Liana Kerzner: YOU have made a ton of assumptions. — 5:33 PM
Liana Kerzner: So stop throwing stones from that super thin glass house — 5:33 PM
Asher Wolfstein: In my opinion, this equally applies to you about me. To back off I will tell you that I've removed myself from almost every potentially dysfunctional interaction right now, and I'm committed to that and to acting in a functional manner. To do that I will attend DBT [ED: Liana knew I had been dragging my feet on this] and continue to work with my therapist. I have no desire to continue a conversation that is volatile if you don't, and honestly I've become incredibly uncomfortable. So, I'll think about things you've said (which I always do) and come back at a later time. — 5:36 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Blah blah blah — 5:36 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Wow — 5:37 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: And I'm the aggressive one. — 5:37 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Not fun to be on the receiving end of, is it? — 5:37 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I'm walking away now. That was not okay. — 5:37 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Sorry not sorry — 5:37 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I have not done that. — 5:37 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Bullshit — 5:37 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, I'm perfectly happy to see where I did htat. — 5:37 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Not true — 5:37 PM
Liana Kerzner: NO ONE feels HAPPY to see where they fucked up — 5:38 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay, then I'm perfectly open to see where I did that. — 5:38 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I wish that were true Asher. I really do — 5:38 PM
Asher Wolfstein: It is true, that's all I can say. — 5:38 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You are not PERFECTLY open. Because no one is perfect — 5:39 PM
Liana Kerzner: You fucked up. And instead of dealing with your fuck up, you turned this into a "Liana thinks Asher is a bad person unless she proves to his satisfaction otherwise" steaming pile of horseshit. That is PEAK "sorry not sorry" — 5:39 PM
[ED: There was no other message in-between these two. Her next message seems out of place, even then, because I didn’t just deny it. However, if one were to take a screenshot, it might look like I did, wouldn’t it? But, I didn’t.]
Liana Kerzner: YES YOU DID. I told you I did NOT want to talk about the bad person angle and you went there anyway. YES. You DID — 5:40 PM
Liana Kerzner: This has strayed SO FAR from the original issue that it's hilarious — 5:40 PM
Asher Wolfstein: At this point you are fixating on precise language instead of meaning. I don't know why you are doing that. But, I'll honor that. I'm open to see where I did do, "blah blah blah." I do not think you think I'm a bad person. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I mistakenly went there to agree with you because I thought that would be reassuring. My mistake. I don't think you have to prove anything to me, just state what you think, which you are. — 5:41 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I agree with you. — 5:41 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Fuck off — 5:41 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Ok — 5:41 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You're flooding the zone with bullshit then complaining that you're wet — 5:41 PM
Liana Kerzner: You do NOT get to tell ME how I see things or what I believe. I do not get to tell YOU what you see or believe. I can ONLY SPEAK ABOUT WHAT I UNDERSTAND, based on your overly wordy communications. I'm doing that in good faith, and you keep getting upset that you're not being understood. But you're not doing the things that would make understanding easier — 5:43 PM
Liana Kerzner: So I repeat. FUCK OFF. or do better. Practice what you preach — 5:43 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I am only speaking about what I understand, how I understand it, in the only way I know how to do it. Maybe that's terrible. If there's a better way, I'd like to know. I can't know or do something if I'm completely ignorant of it. If what I've preached has given any impression that I'm not ignorant of whatever it is, then, that is my unintended mistake, but I am. At this point, I honestly am. I have no idea how to analyze a conversation structurally. I will now, fuck off, for now. — 5:46 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Yeah. It's terrible. So do better. I'm not kissing your ass — 5:47 PM
Liana Kerzner: You're not seeming sorry. What you seem is full of rage. You seem to resent having to pretend to be sorry. But what you seem to really want is for me to seem to recognize that you seem to be a superior being. So it seems to me. I said seem. So nothing I say can be challenged. It just seems to be my opinion. It doesn't matter if this seems like bullshit cowardice. I said seemed. So you can't seem to call me on anything — 5:49 PM
Liana Kerzner: The only true thing you seem to have said is that you are your father's son. And your father didn't seem to give a shit about anything but his own seeming misery. — 5:50 PM
Liana Kerzner:
A GIF/video of Gladiator (the movie) where the main character asks (with subtitles) “Are you not entertained?” He’s turning to the crowd with his arms outstretched. — 5:51 PM
Liana Kerzner: "I have no idea how to analyze a conversation structurally." Then Fucking Learn. — 5:53 PM
Liana Kerzner: I am not diapering your ass and saying "good baby" — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: I won't eat your shit and say it's chocolate. — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: You are so far out of line we can no longer see the line — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: So I repeat — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: Fuck — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: Thoroughly — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: Off — 5:54 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Great. Where can I learn that, because I don't know where to even start? — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT YOU ARE FUCKING TELLING YOU, BRUH — 5:54 PM
Liana Kerzner: Get out of your own sphincter and LISTEN — 5:55 PM
Liana Kerzner: Stop telling other people what they think — 5:55 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I’m listening — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: Bullshit — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: You're waiting to talk. To pontificate your brilliance — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: BULL — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: SHIT — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: I am so tired of this nonsense — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: YOU FUCKED — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: UP — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: You don’t get to set the rules — 5:56 PM
Liana Kerzner: You don’t get to be totally comfortable — 5:57 PM
Liana Kerzner: And you certainly don't get to tell me how to see you — 5:57 PM
Liana Kerzner: You do not control MY MIND — 5:57 PM
Liana Kerzner: And you don't get to go places I said I was not comfortable going, then get a lollypop because you admitted error after you fucking went there anyway — 5:57 PM
Liana Kerzner: You do not get to stomp on people then get complimented on the tread pattern — 5:58 PM
[ED: Liana misquotes this statement she made multiple times since then as well, proud of what she said, but, not repeating what she actually said for some reason.]
Asher Wolfstein: I can't make anybody think or believe anything. I'm very hurt you see me this way. I've caused so much hurt it's unbearable. I'm so sorry. I'm not trying to set rules. I'm trying to meet you where you are.
I am stating what I'm doing. You don't have to see it that way at all, and you don't.
I'd like to know if there's any way I can show that I recognize everything you're saying, and don't want to be that person? — 5:58 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Yeah there is — 5:59 PM
Liana Kerzner: But you need to get over yourself for about an hour to do it — 5:59 PM
Liana Kerzner: I do not want you to be hurt. That being said, you did a bunch of shitty stuff and recognising that… REALLY recognizing that… hurts — 6:01 PM
Liana Kerzner: "My BPD was right" can never happen again, Asher Mental health stigma can never happen again, Asher. Fucking of for almost three weeks can never happen again, Asher. And "I am my father's son" is basically stating "I'm an asshole who can't care about others, not really, because I can't get over myself. Stop making me try" — 6:03 PM
Liana Kerzner: Hence, quoth the raven, "fuck off with that shit" — 6:03 PM
30 September 2024
Asher Wolfstein: Please forgive the wordiness. There was so much said.
You are right. I think there have been a lot of misunderstandings on my part. Other people matter. They mattter because they exist and are significant in that. That means you matter because you are a human being. Just like Pablo matters, and just like I matter. It is not up to me, or anyone else, to determine that. It’s just true by its very nature. I’m saying I completely agree with this. You matter a lot to me because, not only do you exist, but you are you. There’s a reason I consider you my closest friend right now, and that’s because I love you as a friend just as much as, if not more than, all of my other close and significant friends throughout my life. I recognize that I have fallen incredibly short in communicating that, right now, I consider you to be the most important person in this conversation. You are because I’ve hurt you, and I have my head so far up my ass that all I can hear is the sophist gurgling of my self-important shit being pushed out by my oh so impressively brilliant peristalsis that I’m not hearing what you are saying.
I’m not lying, but maybe I really can’t say all of this without it being bullshit because of the disturbance I’ve refused to acknowledge that I think, could be wrong, you’re pointing out. I don’t want it to be bullshit. No matter how deficient it may be due to my coming up lacking, I think the best way I can show that I am listening is to state exactly what I understand in acknowledgment.
Please don’t treat this as a statement of what you think. It isn’t. It also is not meant as a judgmental statement nor as a veil for what I feel. It’s only what I understand. I expect to fall short or be wrong somehow not out of nefarious cynicism but because I’m a limited person that can indeed learn a thing or two. This is for you.
It is actually not okay that I’m a disturbed person. I am not to be pitied for that. It is not okay to resign myself to being my father’s son. I need to stop doing that and be better for everyone involved. I am disturbed because I have mistaken malignant self-centeredness as self-worth. I cannot have self-worth if I think I’m a piece of shit. It just doesn’t work. So I don’t have actual self-worth, and that’s the big problem looming over everything. I have a carefully constructed fragile worldview built purely around this deranged concept of self-worth that is decidedly not impervious to others criticisms at all. It can’t be, otherwise I wouldn’t think I’m a piece of shit. To have actual self-worth that is impervious and thus respectful, mindful, and present, I need to recognize that I matter because I exist. I am worthy of love and care no matter what anyone else thinks or says. Only then can I function without bullshit. I must have actual self-worth in a way that’s productive, beneficial, and good for everyone. My actions have confirmed I do not because they are continuously unproductive, destructive, and bad for everyone.
It doesn’t matter what my intent is in saying so many things I say because it’s not about intent. It’s about structure. If I ask a question, I need to be mindful that it sets up an expectation of an answer, even a particular answer because of how dialogues are traditionally structured. If I ask a question it is possible for that question to be aggressively pushing for someone to say something they don’t want to say due to its very nature whether I intend it to or not. I would be aware of this already if I had actual healthy self-worth, and a resultant actually healthy respectful worldview. I would be actually listening instead of being concerned with trying to control the conversation through various insidious structural means, whether I’m aware of it or not, to get the response or information I want.
That insidious control which I can hide, aware or not, behind a lack of intent is what you’re talking about. You are indeed not talking about my intent. You are talking about my aggressive structural abuse which, when recognized, cannot be hidden in such a way.
None of that is sarcastic. — 6:44 AM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I’m not proposing nor meaning to imply that any of it isn’t true. It is not for me to say right now whether any of it is valid or isn’t. What’s important is that I have an acknowledging, accurate, understanding which only you can help me have.
Like I said, bullshit or not, I want to “fucking” learn. I want to answer all the questions. I want to address all the things, and indeed I do want to be corrected no matter how much it may hurt. However off I may be, I hope this shows that. But, maybe it doesn’t. If that’s true, I’d like to know why. That’s the only way I can improve because I can infer a great deal, but I can’t read minds.
“My BPD was right,” is extremely extremely troubling. It’s antisocial. It is the worst thing I could’ve said because, no matter how I meant it, it shows that I do not appreciate the nature of Borderline. It’s never right because it’s a disorder. That’s why I’ve ended up sequestered away in hospitals and considered a danger to society. Me communicating that I think it’s ever right is very very scary. And I’ve internalized that because you’re not the first person to quote it, and I’m almost never quoted; I’m too wordy. That quote, on its own, scares me. Borderline in any form is never right. I commit to never acting like it is, justifying it in any way, or using it as a justification ever again.
As I said, I really really should have said something, anything, before fucking off for three weeks. But I didn’t. It doesn’t matter why I didn’t. I didn’t and it caused so much grief, and I should have already known that enough to not do it but my head has been stuck so far up my sphincter pitying myself and telling myself it’s okay to be disturbed. I commit to not ever doing that again.
And I commit to being me and not just my father’s son, with a healthy self worth that is beneficial to everyone. I don’t want or need to starve myself to death when I’m 61. That sucks for everyone.
I care about you, a lot. Like, a lot. I look up to you. It is immensely difficult for me to express it in a direct and straightforward manner. To anyone. Ever. Including Pablo and my mother. I have very dear overwhelming feelings. I am incredibly uncomfortable expressing them because I feel like they make me unbearably vulnerable. That’s what I meant when I said guarded. That’s why I don’t get visibly angry in person in public, ever. I believe I told you that. I would rather someone come to the conclusion that I love them or care for them, or that I’m sad, or that I’m angry, and I try to make that happen by giving them a reason to do so. Maybe that’s fucked up. But if I can learn to say “I love you too” (and of course mean it) after fifteen years, I can learn to show that I care however I need to do that. You are so important to me. I am not angry, but incredibly sad if I have to lose our friendship. I cried over so many things today. I could not sleep I am so shook. I am not angry at what was said, I’m incredibly saddened at the prospect that what was said is all there might be.
I require no reward, no kudos, no pat on the back, no pity, no conciliatory response.
I am deeply concerned about you and so distraught right now at everything I’ve caused because, indeed, I fucked up.
I agree. — 6:44 AM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Asher I really wish you'd led with that, because THAT read as sincere. Yes it was a lot of words but you weren't avoiding the emotional elements. You were reading as honest.
Unfortunately Pablo accused me of deliberate cruelty last night, and I don't think I can get over that. It wasn't what I was doing and I don't like all these false accusations.
We needed to get a plan. A real plan. So what happened never happens again.
So I appreciate you truly trying there. "You matter because you are human" is what "intrinsic self worth" means to most people. That it doesn't mean that to you is fine, but you gotta make space for other people's opinions and positions too, not just say "But I don't see it that way."
Pablo insists I accused you of lying. That was not what "bullshit" meant. "Bullshit" refers to the boundary busting, the refusal to meet people halfway, and talking around things instead of talking about them. I never EVER said you were lying and I don't believe you were. I believe that you were being profoundly avoidant. I just didn't want to use mental health language.
And yes, "self-important"… I know that's not how you really feel. But trying to solve a problem and a person responds with "intrinsicism"… that is maddening. Dropping Kantian word salad doesn't do any good in those situations
And yes, YES, You can't have self worth if you think you're a piece of shit. You're NOT a piece of shit. No one is impervious to others' criticisms. But… well, for instance, Pablo has said a lot of untrue things about me over the last few days. They hurt. A lot. Having to sit and wait for you to bother to respond while he criticized me for not being understanding enough hurt. A lot. But I was able to stay mostly functional because I do not believe I am the person he says I am. I was not being deliberately cruel. It was tough love. But he saw you cry but didn't see me cry, so he attacked me. This is unacceptable, but I do not think I'm a piece of shit because of that, even though that's a terrible thing to accuse someone of, especially when it's wrong.
Yes, indeed, if you ask a question about the other person's views, following up with your own views on the topic when they have said they are not comfortable talking about it, continuing to push… yeah that's a form of aggression. Someone is going to be upset when you ask a question, then answer your own question, because it comes across as testing someone, not truly being interested in what they think and feel.
Controlling conversations through structure, or tactics, if you prefer, is not a sign of being a bad person. It's learned behavior. It's unhealthy habits, which violate other people's boundaries, and, frankly, make it impossible to understand what you're really trying to say. Things don't stay manageable in conversations when you're throwing in a bunch of things I- or anyone - didn't say.
I told Pablo before I spoke to you that I was not going to coddle you. Because I think you've had a lot of that, and that's not respecting you as a person. You are more than just an extension of your father. You are your own person. You're not responsible for what he did and you don't have to save or redeem him. I don't think he'd want you to drive everyone away the way he did.
Vulnerability is hard, but it's the only way to maintain truly connected relationships. It's hard for everyone, and that's where the self worth comes in. Speaking uncomfortable truths is vulnerable. I was not going to lie and say I believed you when I didn't.
I'm frightened for you, because at this point you really should not still be this stuck. It has to be horrible to feel so out of control and unable to process these enormous feelings. And with the amount of therapy you've had, there should be a better understanding and a better STRUCTURE. And yes, Pablo resents that word, but it's what is going to make things better. — 08:42 AM
Liana Kerzner: I know because I used to hate myself. I also struggled with vulnerability. I had to do better because I was tired of wanting to die. And yeah, people think I'm a bitch because of what I have to do to stay regulated and not a walking collection of trauma symptoms. The ongoing work is exhausting. Because the work exists, the structure exists, so that I don't start believing my PTSD is right. It is possible. But you have to do the work and stop getting people to do it for you by, yes, things like refusing to deal with it for weeks.
Pablo has done some stuff he should not, but I believe his treatment of me is very wrong, and also believe that part of the reason he's behaving this way is that his stress is killing him. Why you say and do things matters. Recognizing the impact of what you say and do also matters. For instance, I recognize that you were hurt by some of the things I said last night. I didn't want that. I didn't say those things to deliberately hurt you. I recognize they DID hurt, but I did not do it on purpose. I needed people to call me on my bullshit too. You deserve people who care about you enough to not let you throw your life away, and to show you enough respect to tell you when your behaviour is clearly taking you in the opposite direction of where you want to go.
Part of having friends is speaking in a way that makes sense to THEM as well as you. Because that's showing consideration for them.
I don't know what happens now, but I really do appreciate you finally breaking through the defense mechanisms and really trying. Some things are going to have to happen now, but they are not punishments. I just think that being friends AND doing business together isn't working. You're not the only one who fucked up. We all made mistakes. I've been too hands off before this because I was trying to be understanding and nice. "Nice" isn't always kind though. Sometimes the kindest thing is to get tough so that real talk can happen.
I desperately do not want you to believe you are a piece of shit because you're not. Doing bad things is not being a bad person. If I thought you were a bad person, I wouldn't have bothered calling bullshit, because all the pain isn't worth it if someone is really terrible. People bothering to tell you the truth, even when it's not what you want to hear, is a sign of caring. It's not fair to you to say I believe things will get better when I don't.
I know first hand that without a real plan, and without self discipline, things don't get better. It's hard to work the structure, but it really is worth it. It's not fair to you for people to have no expectations or boundaries with you, because that's treating you like a child, and you're not a child. And when someone is coddled, especially someone as smart as you, they know it on some level and it further erodes their self esteem.
I can't make you do anything. And again, I can't tell you what your intents are and was never trying to. In my own hurt, pain, and dealing with the intense sense of rejection I was feeling, I know I wasn't 100% either. Everyone makes mistakes. As I said to Pablo, they were honest ones. Not an ATTEMPT to hurt anyone. I just think that you can't really see the impact you're having on others if no one really tells you. I think you're stronger than you're given credit for.
I know you are very intelligent, so I believe that a part of you knows that refusing to deal with something for three weeks forces other people to deal with it for you, especially if they have trouble letting you fail, because they love you and they're desperate to save you. Trying to save you is misguided, I believe, because it never gives you a chance to see that you can save yourself. But it comes from a good place.
It's much better to just stick to dealing with what is, be authentic, communicate clearly, and stop trying to control people via access to information. If you're not showing up vulnerable, then there are going to be misunderstandings, because you're asking for one thing but wanting another. — 08:42 AM
Liana Kerzner: You're not asking for what you really want. You're hinting. You're needling, you're talking around it. I know because I used to do it too.
I think you can do such amazing things if you just get out of your own way. I do really believe in you, which is why I set high standards. They're the same standards I have to set for myself. I believe you can do it, but I can't make you. You have to want it. You have to believe you can feel better, that you can feel like you're worth something. And my big fear is that you've talked yourself into believing it's not possible because Scott taught you to be so terrified of your own emotions that you can't even feel them anymore. This doesn't make him a BAD person. It just makes him a bad example of how to navigate this stuff. You can't out intellect your feelings. That's not how it works. You have to feel them. And that's hard sometimes, but it's the only way to live authentically — edited 8:42 AM
Asher Wolfstein: Thank you for the kind words. — 9:07 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: They weren't kind they were true. The same way my past statements were not cruel. Just what I believed to be true.
I just have to live now with the understanding that my "friends" assumed I was being cruel. But I'll deal — 9:09 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I don’t think all of them were true. I also think, having experienced a form of tough love at times, that it was unnecessarily cruel. This is just what believe to be true. I’m still willing to be friends, but we don’t see this the same way. [ED: Liana had told my husband Maus that what she had done was a form of tough love.] — 9:26 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Something coming across as cruel because someone was hurting and broken and someone being DELIBERATELY or INTENTIONALLY cruel are not the same thing, Asher — 9:27 PM
Asher Wolfstein: No they aren’t. I agree. I wasn’t accusing you of being cruel. I was stating what I felt and believe to be true. — edited 9:28 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Well Pablo accused me of intentional cruelty. That was the claim — 9:29 PM
Liana Kerzner: That’s not me. — 9:29 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Well I’m not Pablo. So you’ll have to take it up with him. — 9:29 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: The two of you are double teaming me so forgive me for getting wires crossed — 9:29 PM
Asher Wolfstein: In disengaging for now this evening. Have a good night. — edited 9:30 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I'll make arrangements to shift my web services. Good luck to you — 9:30 PM
Asher Wolfstein: If you need help logging onto the portal just let me know. — 9:32 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Please delete any and all records you have amassed of my tweets or other communications. I do not consent to you using them in a vendetta — 9:33 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Why would I do that? — edited 9:36 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Nope. Pablo is giving me shit for something I said to you. This is unworkable — 9:37 PM
Liana Kerzner: You just said "I'm not Pablo" and then he fights your battles for you. THAT is why I need things on the record. I do NOT consent to any of this — 9:38 PM
Asher Wolfstein: No, seriously. Stop that. You don’t control everything and aren’t the arbiter of the truth. I have no idea what Pablo is doing. How can I go on a vendetta if we’re friends? — 9:39 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You're right, I don't control everything. But I do get to set boundaries and Pablo is clearly reading your screen so no conversation is going to stay between just us. — 9:40 PM
Liana Kerzner: I can't have a conversation with you with him speaking for you. It's leading to too much confusion and hurt. And counter to his claims, I do care about everyone's pain here — 9:42 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I tell Pablo about my conversations with you unless you tell me not to. I didn’t have any idea you didn’t want me to do that. You’ve never mentioned it, even when it’s happened before. I get to choose what I share with my husband. If this is a problem, then I won’t share with him without asking you first. I’ve really meant to disengage, but you keep engaging. — 9:43 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: And he doesn’t speak for me, any more than I’m your lapdog. [ED: I'm referencing when Emily Schooley alluded to me being a 'lapdog' or 'flying monkey' of Liana's without autonomy, when I was confronting Emily over something Emily had said about me, not Liana.] — 9:44 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: This is why I'm clearly saying what information I do not give you permission to use. Because if I don't clearly say don't do it, I have no one to blame but myself if you do — 9:44 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Ok. We’re on the same page then. — 9:45 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: So are we clear? — 9:45 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Yeah. — 9:45 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: There was no ploy there, Asher. Just an attempt at clarity — 9:45 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I don’t understand. — 9:45 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Do you even want to? — 9:46 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Is that a structural aggression or an honest question. The answer is yes. — 9:46 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: It's an honest question. I'm not going to assume anything then get accused of intentions I don't have again — 9:47 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I feel like I’m being pulled into an argument I don’t want to have. — edited 9:47 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I feel the same. So what are we going to do about that? — 9:47 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Well. I answered your question. Yes. I don’t want to argue. Saying “do you even want to know?” is “peak bait” to me for an argument. I’m quite aware of it now. — edited 9:48 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Okay not my intention I'm sorry it came across that way — 9:49 PM
Liana Kerzner: I am hurting very badly and had a panic attack today. I'm not 100% — 9:49 PM
Asher Kerzner: Me too. I can’t sleep because I’m so anxious even after taking a Lunesta that had zero effect. — 9:50 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I am in the same boat — 9:50 PM
Liana Kerzner: So we either work this out or we go our separate ways. One more accusation of nefarious intent on my part from either of you triggers the latter option. Are we clear? — 9:51 PM
Liana Kerzner: I am not that person. — 9:51 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I am literally not the person you described in your tough love session. — 9:51 PM ✓✓
Liane Kerzner: Asher, I didn't describe you. At least not deliberately. I don't know what you're talking about there — 9:52 PM
Liana Kerzner: Are we clear? — 9:52 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Not really. I’m baffled. I respect what you said. I’m also not the person you describe in your last large reply. — 9:53 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Asher… are we clear on the boundary I have set? Please. It's important I am sure that you understand that — 9:54 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Yeah. Do you want me to tell Pablo about that boundary too so he’ll stop doing whatever he’s doing that’s instigated this? — edited 9:56 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Yes please — 9:56 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I have a boundary too. I’m not coming to you for therapy, just friendship. Please don’t act like my therapist. — 9:57 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I'm not intending to. That's fine. I accept that. In fact, that was the good natured intent behind a mistake I made. Referring to things as "bullshit" instead of something like "avoidant". I overcorected. I accept that. But my intents were good — 9:58 PM
Liana Kerzner: Can I please ask that friends give benefit of doubt instead of assuming the worst? — 9:58 PM
Liana Kerzner: Please tell Pablo that too — 9:59 PM
Liana Kerzner: Let's not assume anyone is hurting anyone deliberately please — 9:59 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Why are you talking about how you were doing that when I’ve set that boundary? I feel like it’s immediately getting crossed. — 9:59 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: What? Not intentionally — 9:59 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Great. Neither did I. — 10:00 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: You said don't talk like a therapist — 10:00 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Don’t even try to be my therapist. — 10:00 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Asher, I am not intending to do that — 10:00 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Great. — 10:00 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: So can we please not assume anyone is doing anything mean deliberately? All three of us? Please? — 10:01 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I didn’t intentionally cross any one’s boundaries through out this whole thing. — 10:02 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: So if that can be accepted then yeah. — edited 10:02 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Yes I accept that. Did you notice I admitted a mistake? — 10:02 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Yes. Do you want a reward? — 10:03 PM ✓✓
[ED: Liana has misquoted this and taken it out of context multiple times.]
Liana Kerzner: No I just want to make sure you saw it — 10:03 PM
Asher Wolstein: Yep! — 10:03 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I also said I was sorry and that I was listening, which I think I’ve shown I was, and that it was a mistake to go anywhere multiple times. But I notice I got tough love. I’ll accept yours without it. — 10:04 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Do you want to know what I was working on, or should I just skip that? — 10:06 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Yes I do want to know. — 10:06 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Like I said I did it wrong, but that's what I was going on — 10:07 PM
Liana Kerzner: Well, one, I was trying to avoid anything remotely like therapy speak. I also recall you telling me something along the lines of you prefer people to just tell you things. Don't coddle you. — 10:07 PM
Liana Kerzner: It's not the way I normally do things, but you were so upset about therapy speak that I was trying to avoid it at all costs, out of consideration — 10:08 PM
Liana Kerzner: I am sorry the way I did it hurt you — 10:09 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I understand what you’re saying. It hurt and shocked me enormously because I found it, as said, unnecessarily cruel even though apparently it wasn’t because you insist it wasn’t. But, now I understand what was going on so I’m going to regard all of it as being inconsequential meanness to try to teach me something. That’s just what I believe about things. Don’t worry, I completely respect and acknowledge you had good intentions, even though structurally speaking, it was one of the most harrowing conversations I’ve ever had with a close friend. I felt like I was being criticized by the worst of the trolls and my intelligence resentfully belittled. All good though. 👍 — edited 10:33 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I'm assuming that was sarcasm? — 10:33 PM
Asher Wolfstein: No — 10:34 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Okay I'm glad I asked then — 10:34 PM
Liana Kerzner: I'm having trouble following it — 10:34 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I’m being as direct as I can be. Short and to the point as desired. — 10:34 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: If I said I found you not talking to me for weeks unnecessarily cruel, could you see the point? — 10:34 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I apologize. I didn’t intend it to be. I had to make sure that I was healthy for the welfare of everyone else. I understand if I then, as a human being deserving of love and respect, completely deserved to have it inflicted upon me so I could truly understand your pain. Especially because I wasn’t listening and had my head up my self-important ass. Worked out well. I truly understand the pain I caused you. — edited 10:38 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Again, do I take that statement literally? Because it reads as angry to me — 10:39 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Does it? — 10:39 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Well I asked you if you saw the point. Not your opinions on the point. So it's like a step got skipped there — 10:39 PM
Liana Kerzner: I didn't ask for an apology, just if you saw the point. — 10:40 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Oh I didn’t realize I was not expected to give opinions on the point. I don’t want this to turn into a conversation with myself so I’ll stop with that. Yes, I think I see the point, but is it a justification for what happened? — 10:41 PM ✓✓
Asher Wolfstein: I’ll try not to apologize then if you don’t ask for one. — 10:41 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: Okay things are moving too fast for me here. You do seem angry and I'm fine with you being angry at me. It's 12:42 here so I'm going to go soon.
There was no revenge intended on my part. I wasn't trying to make you hurt because I was hurt — 10:43 PM
Asher Wolfstein: I understand. Have a good night. Talk to you tomorrow. — 10:44 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: That got much bigger than the point I was trying to make, but I'll take the loss — 10:44 PM
Liana Kerzner: I'm not going to talk to you tomorrow, Asher. I need a break. These cycles aren't good for either of us, and the more I talk, the more hurt you get — 10:45 PM
Asher Wolfstein: Okay. I understand. Take care of yourself. — 10:45 PM ✓✓
Liana Kerzner: I just wanted to deal with the business stuff first, but it looks like that's not going to be possible. I need a break from both of you, until such time that this can be discussed calmly, without a lot of anger, and without unnecessary accusations and distrust.
Again, I'm sorry I hurt you and I completely accept that you do not forgive me. All the best. Be well and goodnight — 10:46 PM
Hey everybody. I’m back, kind of. This is not a normal feedback Friday. This is me reading an announcement that went up on Kickstarter about … I’m not sure… I don’t… I haven’t put it up on Kickstarter yet. I’m pre-recording this so it’s out there and this is going to be my only statement on this.
Obviously this has not been a normal week. I haven’t done content. This is a big part of the reason why and the the short version is: I’m pulling the plug on Song of Sparkle Muffin and I ask… if you want to talk to me (???)
I’m going to read a statement and if you want a refund and you’re a Kickstarter backer, there’s a link in the Kickstarter post that you can fill out a form and you can get your money back. Any money that isn’t refunded is going to go to the crowdfund to save Eileyn’s aunt’s house (this is in the statement) but I’m making it clear here I am not keeping a cent. I have not been paid a cent on this game, other people have, I have not. So I’ve not taken a penny from this thing.
And I can’t talk about what happened, and you may see why based on the official statement. So I ask people: if you want to talk to me about the refunds okay; if you want to ask me how I’m doing okay; please don’t ask me what happened. I can’t tell you. I have to be very, very careful going forward (???)
So this is the official statement that a person with… you know, went to school for PR, has PR experience, help me write, and this will be my only public statement on this matter, okay.
“Hi all.
“This is going to suck to write, tl;dr I’m pulling the plug on the game. If you’d like a refund please fill out this form and I will work through the list to return your money.
“Obviously that form is available on Kickstarter.
“Now more details, though I will be vague in places since it does no good to spill too much tea. This is an information post. Here’s the situation:
“Numerous delays have mounted with this project. Some of those delays were because of the growing mental health instability of the spouse of a member of the team. This led to repeated missed deadlines, a great deal of distraction, and crossed moral boundaries.
“The good news is about half the money we raised has not been spent since it was allocated to pay voice actors we didn’t get a chance to use. This means there are funds to reimburse those who want their money back. I think this is important because I don’t want anyone feeling scammed.
“So yes, of course, I will give refunds to those who want them just fill out the form, and I’ll get it back to you via PayPal. If you don’t use PayPal, we’ll work something out. This process will take a bit of time because it’s all manual, and I’ll be doing it with some spare hours in the day. But we’ll get through it. After one month, assuming it only takes a month to go through, obviously, if there’s reimbursement times, it’ll take longer, but approximately after one month, any money left will go to the GoFundMe to save my Discord moderator Eileyn’s aunt’s house.
“It was damaged in a sinkhole and needs a new foundation, or it will be demolished. So something good will come out of this very sad turn of events. I really appreciate everyone’s support, patience, and understanding. I’m deeply embarrassed and disappointed in this outcome, but it’s better to face facts than to continue to stall and hope for a miracle.
“I’ve alluded to the fact that things were going on that were not my story to tell multiple times in updates. Looking back, I probably should have seen the writing on the wall sooner. I hope the fact that there are still funds to return shows that your faith in me was not misplaced.
“The delays were due to mental health issues in the home and culminated in the team member’s spouse taking a very public shot on Twitter at a transwoman they knew was being harassed by KiwiFarms, using a narrative they knew was being circulated on the Farms and that perpetuated both transphobia and mental health stigma.
“I will not repeat the statement because I’m not looking for a debate on whether I’m in the right in my opinions here. To be clear, criticism is part of being on social media, but these comments went, I believe, over the criticism line. Even if you don’t like someone, doing or saying things that could reasonably create a more dangerous situation because the person is already near the end of their rope is not something I can defend.
“Yes, the person who did it had their reasons. I just don’t think they were terribly good ones considering all the factors.
“I insisted that this person commit to a mutually agreed upon concrete plan going forward to address their unacceptable lack of impulse control and other issues that led to this reckless and potentially dangerous behavior so something like this never happened again.
“This person would not comply with this process. [ED: This is false, so false, and I can prove it.]
“The spouse, perhaps understandably, sided with them. Not understandably, the team member accused me of deliberate cruelty. I assure you that this claim is false. While at times I deliberately irritate people, it’s not in my nature to do things I believe will hurt them.
“This obviously created an untenable working relationship, so I’ve lost a person I needed to complete the game, and frankly my spirit is broken as far as this project is concerned. It’s been a hard road, and it’s hard to give up, but there must be consequences for the fact that it got to this point, and I take responsibility for letting it go this long.
“It had been building for a while and I erred on the side of trying to understand the unstable person and not betraying confidence instead of dealing with the bad behavior. I take responsibility for that error in judgment, and I’m sorry. [ED: To backers, not me, it appears.] Because I think another issue of this sort is likely to occur down the road if I don’t remove the source of the problem now, it’ll only make things worse, possibly, for more people.
“It’s time to stop the bleeding.
“I can’t control this person’s behavior. The only thing I can control is whether the project exists to tie them to me. The eventual confrontation between me, this individual, and their spouse resulted in a very ugly fight, and it’s left me too depleted to pick myself up and try to find a new collaborator. I’m just beaten.
“My stress levels are not healthy and, well, I can’t in good conscience bring anyone new on because, again, of the reality of being on KiwiFarm’s radar. While I was previously known to KiwiFarms, it wasn’t this much of an issue until this person began repeatedly provoking them.
“Again, I hope you feel like your faith in me was not misplaced,
Liana.”
So that’s my statement. Again, I can’t say more. Again, it’s disappointing. It’s saddening. But it’s really the only choice I have left here, considering the circumstances. So thank you for your time and understanding in advance.
Again, if you are a Kickstarter backer, and if you want to refund, go to Kickstarter, follow the link on the form in the update there; it will take you to the refund page, and I will work through getting money back to people.
Okay… okay… thanks for your patience and your understanding. You guys are great.
Thank you.
…
[ED: Here I’m breaking with the original post, where I then went on to provide my published response on Bluesky and so on. That is unnecessary at this time, but will be put up in a third post.]
Before I get to the original ending to this section, I want to put things in a different perspective. I have not outlined this perspective before.
The reason I haven’t done it is because I thought it was evident enough that it would eventually stand out to people on its own. It has not, and so, I will offer this succinct and simple framing for the reader to ponder:
Liana Kerzner was my friend for five years. We were together for two brief periods of time, both on trips, where we stayed in the same building both times. This was a real-life friendship to me, in that, I would not have considered it parasocial, particularly since I never cared much about Liana’s fame (I suppose to the chagrin of Liana).
Even though my husband, Maus, desperate to make things better (as was I), encouraged me to become a client of Liana’s services, I ultimately did not because I thought that was not a good idea. I told Maus (Pablo in the above chat) that I thought mixing pseudo-medical advice (not bashing it here, but it’s not technically supposed to be medical) with a true friend was asking for trouble and mixed roles. And so, I was never a client of Liana Kerzner’s.This is important to note because of the following:
Having never been a client of Liana’s, as I only want to go to therapists (and doctor’s) who aren’t my personal friends to maintain proper boundaries, it immediately struck me that, once things went south with Jessica, and even after my ‘smoothing’ over of the situation in my mind (I was ready to move on), Liana confronted me with the proposition that Jessica was right, and I was experiencing a symptom of Borderline Personality Disorder because she could observe it…
As what?
A highly educated therapist? A doctor? My peer counselor (which she wasn’t)?
That’s an observation a friend might make, just so the other person could take a second to check in with that idea. But, it wasn’t an observation.
It was part of a line of argument, using medical-grade observations and terminology, that purposefully reframed my entire exchange with Jessica in a way that undermined my internal experience before I could even give my input: that I wasn’t splitting.
And that’s it. As a friend, just a friend, with no background or training in professional, educated, licensed therapy, if I were to say that (that I was sure I wasn’t experiencing that symptom) that’s the end of it.
She’s NOT my therapist, and, she’s not even a therapist. It was an attempted foot in the door to be A therapist in my life, and not just a therapist, one who would to bully me into being “better.”
“Better” for who?
The reason I claim it was an attempt is due to what’s occurred since then, and how she’s treated the situation. She may be unaware that this is what she’s doing, but that doesn’t erase the impact, and it doesn’t mean she didn’t attempt to take on that role. She did. And she kept at it even after 2.5 weeks.
Liana Kerzner blurs boundaries that should never be blurred.
Liana has no degree, no real background on this, no more special insight “going through the system” than *I* do (really), and yet, this was how the confrontation was going to begin…
But it didn’t.
That was partially why I shut it down. Given that, when I came back, what did Liana then proceed to do? What did she do even in her lengthy “apology” for her “miscalculation”? She claimed “tough love” as she assumed the position of A bully therapist/psychiatrist straight out of the in-patient unit (yes, I’ve met several, this isn’t new).
In her “apology,” she sounded exactly like them. And they’ve never helped me in the long run, because it doesn’t fit, and other, not bully professionals, instantly see that.
She ISN’T a therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist, or even MY counselor. She doesn’t have a detailed study or background in it either. She’s just a fellow patient as far as I’m concerned.
She was JUST my friend.
And THAT’S where I made ABSOLUTELY sure she stayed, because, contrary to her very bizarre uneducated opinion (since diagnosis is blindingly impossible), I have boundaries for myself, and I enforce them without hesitation.
I respect others’ boundaries, but not at the expense of my own. No one should. If they are, that’s a sign of enmeshment and covert abuse, but, I’M not a therapist, so, take that as you will. Other people’s boundaries are not my responsibility, they’re their responsibility. End of story.
Just being my friend wasn’t enough for Liana Kerzner.
It was enough for me.
And that’s what breaks my heart.
I don’t give a shit about the cancellation of the game. Games get cancelled. Oh the fuck well. I can make my own shit, if I get out of my way. I have hundreds of ideas. No huge loss. And… I wasn’t even involved. Like, at all. I had no hand whatsoever in the development.
That’s a fact her her lawyer asserts!
What I give a shit about are the lies.
I did NOT refuse to comply with anything.
It’s right there, in pink and black.
That’s the first one right off the bat. I’m really supposed to believe she forgot that part in, what, 4 days? And yet, she remembered the part where I said, “Yes, do you want a reward?” with seemingly perfect clarity on It’s Not Therapy?
These two things don’t go together.
Liana didn’t swoop in as some famous red-head bombshell even the gays can’t help but crave head pats from, and set a boundary on an incompetent misogynist asshole to set him straight.
An honest, consistent, intellectually and socially independent, competent man who struggles because he has severe, chronic, conditions set a firm as fuck boundary, and didn’t let a strange woman, who believed she was going to bully him into being acceptable to her, fuck around with his mental health.
All those adjectives are possible at the same time.
I have more than one condition.
Liana may not be aware that’s what she’s doing, but she does it.
And having to shape others into acceptability isn’t a personal boundary, it’s a need for control.
I’m just as qualified as Liana Kerzner to say that, and that should really make you stop for 5 seconds and think.
That’s how it went.
I have a lot more to say about this transcript that offers a very different perspective on the entire exchange.
Things I’ve refrained from saying in the hopes people could see them for themselves.
Things that point out just how fucked up Liana’s behavior, and the resulting dynamics, areto me,which, after all the opportunity Liana has had to assert that from her perspective, I think it’s time to state mine.
Now, here’s the original ending:
After trying to hoist everything on me because I blocked her for 2.5 weeks and then came back after coming “back to baseline” per her advice and apologized repeatedly, also telling her how I was working to do better with specifics, I have yet to hear anything about my response.
I doubt that, given how I’m “bad crazy,” immoral, dangerous, and everything else that makes me a “safe target” [ED: This is a reference to a video that she published around the time of this post. I’m quoting Liana.] to throw under the bus for someone’s failures (once again) and perpetuate mental health stigma, I will get a response.
I’m not worth it. Who’s going to listen to me anyway?
This post suffered from some issues with accessibility in that the images emphasizing authenticity would get in the way of reading the chat. I have put all images at the top in a condensed ‘gallery.’ They no longer appear with the text as that is unnecessary. Second, the HTML showing the messages has been simplified from many paragraph tags to several preformatted tags.
Here is a selection of the JSON from a Telegram export of my and Liana’s long-running chat. Feel free to line these up with the text and screenshot if so desired. The only thing edited out are the user ID numbers:
As for the Twitter information, you can download a CSV of the pertinent Twitter posts featured here for reference. These posts are unfortunately missing because they were deleted before the information was downloaded, however, they were also posted other places on the Internet around that time:
NOTE: This is a living document. The contents won’t change, but links to relevant things will be added. I have said a LOT of stuff related to this transcript over a long period of time, all spread out. But, it’s beginning to coalesce into a structure where people will be able to see every part put together in detail, easily. I hope you look forward to my side of the story, presented in a clear, well-documented, accessible way.
